And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.

The mob demands blood

You discount the level of emotional attachment that was involved after a while. I am not defending the person that was scammed here at all.

That someone is gullible and perhaps not that smart is not reason to prolong the situation for as long as it went on.

That's my concern. The length of time that this went on is slightly disturbing to a number of people.

"When the bullies harass you, go find a teacher."

You know who else could have closed TS? Erotica 1.

But I guess once someone logs onto your comms you're obliged to torment him until he snaps.

I agree - but you have to remember some people don't react how you and I might.

I think it was taken too far - a lot of people seem to feel the same.

I see this excuse repeated over and over. The problem with it is that when you steal candy from a baby or trick the elderly, weak minded, or foolish to give you their rent money, you're still an asshat. Moreover, in my mind, your conduct is more reprehensible because you took advantage of people who, for what ever reason, are mentally infirm, weak and incapable of adequately defending themselves. Sure E1's victim could have gotten up and left - the fact that he stayed showed his mental infirmities, and it is playing off those infirmities that makes E1's action so obscene.

A lot of people didn't have an issue with slavery. Some did. Some people took notice of that. I don't really want to be drawn into real life examples as it achieves nothing. Simply to say people's opinions are worthless because you disagree with them is....shortsighted.

By the same logic, a lot of people believe in gay rights, sexual equality and racial equality; doesn't make them wrong either.

Well yeah, I think he goes way over the line of decent behavior. Having said that: how bloody stupid do you have to be to engage in his bonus room thingy?

Do you attribute this to his lack of awareness or Erotica1's skill at manipulation?

"Shouldn't have worn that dress"

Yes, which is part of the mechanic of selection of victims for extortion/ransom used in this OUT OF GAME activity.

Perhaps CCP could add IP addresses linked to peoples accounts in game and in the forums. Out of Game Justice should balance the books.

Your words. Some guy getting embarrassed because he's greedy is in no way comparable to sexual assault. Just like getting made fun of on the internet is not the same as torture (DIAF ripard), and getting scammed is not cyberbullying.

Based on the other things going on out of game promoting bullying, it would be no different.

Wow...37 pages and counting.




This would be a good spot for a TLDR of the thread so far, anyone?

Which one? The caller and the host both are at fault, according to this trial by forum

So we understand correctly...

Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him.
Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour.
A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour.
The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.

F

If bloggers didn't pick the bonus room up, it wouldn't even be widely distributed.

Then allow me to be fully serious here.

Blaming the victim in RL sexual violence = not okay, and such rationalization is in and of itself morally reprehensible since the rationalization itself does measurable harm to real people who are or are yet to be victims of sexual assault.

Blaming the victim in RL for other crimes = you blame the victim where appropriate given the circumstances and blame the criminal always.

Blaming the victim in Eve scam = okay. Eve is a dangerous place and assumed to be dangerous, and since we can't blame the eve-criminal for valid gameplay, we can certainly blame the victim for being stupid and greedy. If the criminal does morally reprehensible things (like manipulating and taunting the disabled), then we consider and judge that separately from the scam. It may make the victim seem more sympathetic, but it doesn't make him any less stupid and greedy. Blaming the victim isn't the same as absolving the criminal. Its just that in Eve we tend to hold the criminal blameless by default, because its much more fun that way.

Next we shall blog about the reading of Erotic Fan Fiction over mumble while structure bashing and how its killing Eve!

And let me point out that getting someone to sing and record it is not cyber bullying. Cyber bullying or any bullying is something that happens over months/years and is a constant bombardment of hate.

Ive said it multiple times to multiple people in this thread.

The Mittani + Fan fest.

It happened, he broke no rules, yet he got a temp ban and was forced from his position. That was the right thing to do in that situation, its also my opinion that Erotica should have all his assets/isk removed and also receive a ban, but i have morals so i guess im in the minority.

Seems some people don't understand how much 1 billion is.
If you only have 1 billion in assets you probably worked for it in Eve.
That's not $20 but hours and hours and hours in gameplay.
The emotional tie to that is alot stronger then with someone who just buys a PLEX and sells it.
I can understand that guy trying to get that back.
He is not gonna make the bill and say 'oh well I can buy it all back tomorrow'
I can understand him exploding and crossing a line.
Not that this is a smart or acceptable thing to do.

I do not understand the 'fun' one gets out of pushing someone to his breaking point.

Anyway..this thread tells me I have to call my parents tomorrow.
Thank them thousand times for giving me a decent upbringing with a moral compass.

I find all of this thoroughly entertaining.

I can tell a lot of people haven't listened to the whole audio file. The end is the best part!

The end of the audio is just fantastic. I listened to it 3 times. My wife just lawled.

Much as I hate to break your little trollish bubble, but as has been noted many times by those coming to E1's defence, said verbal outburst by the victim happened OUTSIDE Eve. Therefore no EULA violation. You can't have it both ways...

This. So much this.

Yes, very clearly you are. Bless.

I was half expecting this thread to be locked by now.

Then a "do not talk about this again or you'll get banned" warning from CCP *Insert name here*

Dave you can hold my hand any time. I may even let you wear Kimmi's cosy.

Threadnaught is longer now

The ultimate payout might be a roundhouse kick to the face from some random aggrieved loony at Fanfest.

Hey look, a psychopath sadist talks about civility. So Erotica tell me, hows it going? You humiliated any more vulnerable people today, maybe made one or two cry? You would like that wouldnt you.

Why do we have to play on a fair playing field all of a sudden by punishing the victim? Equality among people doesn't even exist. How can that be seen as an important value in this case?

I would laugh and applaud if someone kicked Erotica1 in the face at a Fanfest.
Nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

I would also laugh and applaud if Erotica1 was banned from the game.
Again, nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

Wouldn't you?

Read you, daft cow.

Notice the phrase "its not illegal".
So yes, it is ok in real life.

A lot of posting from you for something irrelevant, wouldn't you agree?

Laughing and applauding it is not illegal.

Which is what I said.

Reading is HAAARRD.

Dave: This is an irrelevant spaceship game.
Dave: Pardon me while I make 30 important posts about it.

Clear enough now?

I am not causing anyone misfortune by laughing or applauding.

The same cannot be said of Erotica1.

Nice try though!

He did state he would not kick, he just stated he would laugh. You are allowed to laugh, you're even encouraged to laugh irl.

Bad reading is however frowned upon, both in real life as on the internet.

Cant speak for Dave but we are well known for our love for posting.

I dont hear anyone singing gleefully in that recording.

I hear a group of sadists circlejerking with sweaty palms amidst much heavy breathing at the suffering they can inflict on a person outside of the game.

The guy snapped after 2 hours of psychological torture. What he says at that point is really irrelevant.

I like how Dave Stark tried to derail the thread, to keep it on topic.

Ride that white horse Dave. Be the hero Erotica1 needs and deserves.

In these recordings, Erotica and Co. is the one doing the kicking. You are however still allowed to laugh.

No.

They really don't have to do anything they don't want. They make the rules, not you.

Mr Epeen

Laughing and applauding is outlawed in your country?

Thats fked up, dude.

Said the guy who used (and probably still) to sit in the "bonus room" right there with E1.

So are you willing to say anything against Erotica1's behavior in the audio?

So you are not part of it? were not sitting in this room from the "scamming" side?

Behaviours envokes reaction. Be bad (or good) to someone and you can expect a reaction which is often not thought out in the 'heat of the moment'. Although I agree he choice of words is rather awkward. But it sounds like a 'fight or flight' reaction after the realisation he got himself in a huge mess ingame as well as out of game, I don't think he gave the value of his words the same amount of thought as Erotica and Co did to their own words, when they came up with the idea on how to push people over the edge.

YEah. Whats a British accent sound like?

Is it like an English Welsh Scots or Northern Irish one?

And which part of those places does it sound most like the accent of?

So you find it acceptable to actively attempt to humiliate people and cause them pain (outside of any games)?

Salvos, you're really not helping yourself here...

Mags, Baltec, Dave, Jenn et al: Stop the broken record already! We know that the victim used some bad words and slurs when, after two hours of torment, he finally snapped (losing his composure, temper and possible a few marbles). Does that make his use of said words excusable? No. Does it make his stream of invective understandable? Yes. Let's move on shall we?

The words the victim used, or the threats, empty or otherwise, made towards E1 were made after 2 hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse. Yes, they were bad words. We get it. Really.

Bloody northerners.

Did I say that?

*Looks at quote*

Nope.

Except all his hours of work also dissapear with that click, while they keep up appearances that he can get it back if he continues in the masquarade.

That's what I said - up north. :P

"Very little in comparison"?! You seriously just said that? Did you miss the part about the two hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse? Oh yes, of course you did.

Well, I supposeso . Plus, you usually post good stuff on here. Ok, you can go on the list of people who are alright.

It just means you were a soft southern sh*te for 4 years.

Yes. What is the full duration? is it until you broke the victim to tears? is it until he quits? is it until he 'wins'? is it 2 hours every time?

And also, were you on the 'scamming' side? or you just happen to jump into a room, not saying word, just sitting there listening to people sing song and humiliate themselves?

Actually, the REALLY scary bit?

That Sohkar is supposedly a FRIGGEN Air Traffic Controller.
I will express myself in Chinese.

Ho Lee Fuk.

Seriously, I think CCP, having his 'real life' information - should report Sohkar to the proper authorities.

Somebody this obviously unstable and insane should NOT be directing aircraft in ANY capacity.

Erotica 1 actually did us a great service by exposing a clear and present risk to public safety.

Would YOU feel comfortable landing at a busy airport staffed by someone like Sohkar?

Takes one to know one.

Saw it coming

They are going to get a racist shouting at other people. You honestly expect the Beeb to take his side?

Pff, you should go with the whole FOX News, "goons are a CIA front" angle and pointed out that I said I "saw it coming"

Doesn't matter whose side they take. What matters is they will say EVE allows and tolerates this kind of thing - and thats a BIG negative for CCP right there. It might attract a few dozen sadists to the game, but it will turn off a lot more normal guys.

The idea is for CCP to be forced into preventative measures - such as, I dont know, booting E1, his alts, his friends? That would be appropriate. Better then high school justice at fanfest, and probably more effective then cancelling subscriptions by regular people.

As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.

However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.

This is bullying.

CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.

Permabans for saying something mean? I don't condone taking the mick out of the way someone speaks (unless you're Welsh), nor do I do it (unless you're Welsh), but people like you are the reason a fat guy can get arrested for telling a joke about fat people in England.

For me, this is simply beating up on a weaker person. For those that justify how the victim should be "stronger" or "know better", would that same logic work for the small, weak and younger kid that gets pushed down by the larger, stronger, and older one after being led into a situation he can't escape?

There's no question in my mind who is wrong here. I'll be watching for CCP's official response. It's disheartening to see this happen in such a wonderful game and I'd hate to see this behavior continued to be allowed that tarnishes it.

Implying that the physical difficulty of performing a click has any relevance.

Only that you are ignoring the mental factor.

Silly analogy:
Shooting someone with a gun. Some people just can't do it (in a given situation). Even tho it's no different than "just a click"

Massve difference between being so invested that he didn't feel that he could escape without losing stuff that he was emotionally invested in.

Once that had been stripped a further hour and a half was completely not needed.

It was clear he was in distress and yet it carried on. You still haven't answered that issue.

because it seems a third of the player base of eve are sociopaths, and a vocal minority - outright sadists, thats why.....


If I was CCP, I would boot E1 & Co. and pass therir IPs to law enforcement.

Nope. I would apologize to the dude on behalf of EVE community.

Some people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment. Whether you judge them for that is one thing. You might be in a rage, drunk or just joking - once you've said it it's done.

It doesn't mean that you believe it. Whether you try and dance around it with semantics is irrelevant. The guy had been pushed to his limit and he lost it.

Insta-ban if he does. 100% certain.

Thats why he doesn't. But don't worry. This will gain enough momentum for action to be taken, either way.

You can pick away at everything I typed all you want, the central issue here is that you (and others) are condoning actions by someone that picked on a weaker person by judging the victim for their behavior, which you clearly would not do.

It seems there is no shortage of people in the world these days that have an opinion on how someone else should live their life. Be it how you do your job, how you drive your car to work, what you post on the internet, or how you play a video game. These same people who know all the "right" and "wrong" way to do things are just as human as everyone else and they all have some weakness that could be exploited. Sometimes those weaknesses get harmlessly exploited and most of us laugh it off. However, in this case, it is crystal clear that this crossed the line of truly unacceptable behavior in society. Within our gaming world, I think that matters a great deal. I hope CCP agrees.

He has a killboard so he literally does undock. He's in an alliance that is almost constantly at war. Maybe you should convenience him to undock in something shiney.

Maybe because some of us have a better grasp of logic and human reasoning.

Even for deadly serious real life matters, in courts things like Duress, Extenuating Circumstances, and even Diminished Capacity exist. Since someone pushed by force, emotions, or circumstance has much less burden of responsibility than another doing the same under orderly and perfect conditions. It can mean the difference between manslaughter convictions or 1st degree.

Also, 'simply leaving' is much the same thing I'm sure battered women hear all the time. "why don't you just leave him?"

Sometimes people are emotionally invested in various matters, that even if taking any physical action to leave the situation is completely possible, the will to is completely absent.

Anyone else not taking those matters into consideration are just actively and intentionally looking for reasons not to hold the instigator(s) with any responsibility of the scenario.

The real belligerent here is Ripard Teg.

The guy who doesn't defend his blog in its own threadnaught.

Got any evidence for that?

Personally I joined EVE because of its freedom to scam, loot and pillage.

I know there's no EULA/ToS against looting and pillaging people's out-of-game homes, but still...

So really, you think CCP cares?

I joined EVE because of the danger, too.

But that's irrelevant.

We aren't talking about "scamming, looting and pillaging".
We aren't talking about "da rulez", either.


We're talking about unethical behaviour, and the reputation deriving from it.

Its very simple guys.

EVE Online has no place for real-life pedophiles, rapists, online predators, pimps, terrorists, and drug dealers.

E1 and friends fall somewhere along that axis and have to go.

Very simple.

There are various degrees of unethical behaviour.

I guess if CCP wants to go the way of all the other themepark MMOs, they'll bend to that pressure.

This is becoming a circlejerk of one side saying to ban, another saying to leave it alone.

False.

See:

"No, its like we will torture you until you leave the Bonus Room, and we win."

Have you read the post linked in my sig?

I encourage you to do so.

Have you read the post linked in my sig?

I would encourage you to do so.

Interesting. Recently I actually had people from BU, Miner Bumping, and the Bonus Room fill out a questionnaire and take a Psychopathy Survey created by Professionals in the field of Psychological Disorders.

The results were interesting, but not particularly spectacular. Seems EVE Pirates aren't THAT much more psychopathic than 'normal' people.

ofc that sounds completely normal! because a special snowflake said it!

Then what is the point of the unwinnable game?

Aaah! Nice try at non-sequitor! I'll bite.

They already have his assets before the Bonus Room begins.

There is not one single further space cent to be squeezed out of him during the Bonus Room.

So I ask again:

What is the point of the unwinnable game?

Oh you are a carnival kind of guy?

Do you like gladiator movies by chance?

Yes, if they knew he was molesting kids.

They sell underage children?!?!

Just to inject some factual information:

1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue.
2) So have the CSM.
3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.

can we get a blue tag to weigh in on the matter?

Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. ripard used his blog to spark a witch hunt.

Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.

ftfy.

Agreed, its disintigrating into a typical General Discussion thread.

Can you stop playing in codes and with a politicians tounge??

Look what Microsoft is doing in cases like this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26766098

EVE should do similar.

Already exists in form of Report Bot button.

That one isnt abused at all.

Really? thx captain obvious.

You still get all his assets though, if they are stupid/dumb enough to comply.
And I applaud you for that. Gf.

But why the whole Bonus Room thing thereafter?

Nothing is impossible.

A reworked system that colors a player's name in local based on a number and type of accumulated feedback reports is a solid improvement on the current security status mechanic.

OK. whatever you say Mr. Troll.

Why go to a bonus room after they give you their stuff?

And how exactly do they win it back?

HTFU? Why? Why do we have to close our eyes and allow the game to get worse?

And how do they complete the bonus room?

Most people seem to be differentiating between the scam and the theatre afterward, pointing to the theater as the over the top humiliation they find objectionable.

If you separate the scam itself from everything-that-happens-after-in-the-bonus-room, A. what does it have to do with EVE/CCP and B. How is it any different than a prank call by a radio show?

Perhaps because you forgot to wear your protective tinfoil.

Cos nobody seems to be able to answer it.

EVE has a mountain to climb, that's why.

At the top of that mountain is Kandy Land. Players will be awarded points for completing the same quest every day for a week, and these points will be used to buy indestructible, account bound Epic Officer Modules.

Obviously it would need something to prevent abuse, but the concept is good. In EVE players with a red card could lose forum posting and local posting 'privileges'. No more forum trolls and no more scammers in Jita. Self regulation 4tw.

It doesn't, that's why I think they may take action against E1 despite the:

"sky is falling"

"pack your **** the game is over if we admit that E1 acted inappropriately"

"care bears are winning"

"we are hard guys so our whining isn't REALLY whining"

"oh noes, I will never gank again"

handwringing histrionics that you, your 10 friends and all of their alts have been doing over 300+ pages.

TL/DR stop whining I can't drink your tears fast enough

McDonald's is liable as they implicitly guarantee a safe environment for children if they allow children in as customers. This includes the area of the parking lot. If McDonald's is aware the crime is occurring but doesn't report, or prevent it, then they are complicit in the crime as an accessory before and after the fact.

Let us work to FIX what is broken and keep climbing.

Maybe they will...he shouldn't have said those things. I'm not here to make excuses for poor behavior unlike yourself who will go to the mat for a creepy individual who asks his contestants to write his name in peanut butter on themselves and send him the pics

Your tears are so delicious. I hope that clarifies things for you. I may have some crayons lying about or would you prefer I wrote it in peanut butter so you and E1 can read it together.

Nope, it would be appropriate, I have a migraine today and language skills are the first to go (along with sight in my right eye)

Derogatory is far too soft a term for what I meant.

thank you, now what word was I trying for?

m

And there we have it finally. Peas in a pod. You just said all that needs hearing. Done with you. Thanks again, they were delicious!

Damn it Dave.

Now that song is going through my aching head.

well played

m

He didn't know the difference between "dribble" and "spread", either.

I think he should look those words up.

Bro, not for nothing but if you need that question answered in the context of all that has come out about that guy then you have at least 99 problems and Eve isn't 1 of them so go get checked out.

And to be fair, I have been watching this thread from page 1, not saying much just watching the carnage, you have been one of the most prolific whiners in here so maybe you haven't been crying, but you have seemed on the verge at times.

Xuixien is still my favorite pixellated badgirl though.

Kinda.

Also this thread is beginning to remind me of Season 2, Episode 1 of Vikings.

Bro, not for nothing but if you need that question answered in the context of all that has come out about that guy then you have at least 99 problems and Eve isn't 1 of them so go get checked out.

And to be fair, I have been watching this thread from page 1, not saying much just watching the carnage, you have been one of the most prolific whiners in here so maybe you haven't been crying, but you have seemed on the verge at times.